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by ceselder
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Interested in AI (safety) research and pursuing a career of earning to give.

Would love to meet a lot  of fellow EAs/vegans/rationalist types while doing this.

I'm currently in Belgium. And almost finished with my computer science masters degree from a ~150 ranked university.

I have the full intention to leave because of the following reasons
1) Belgian wages are bad (median after tax is 2500 euros/month, taxation very progressive)
2) I don't really care for leaving my family behind right now
3) The EA scene is quite dead here.
4) There's little jobs in my sector in Belgium.

 

So I want to move to a big city (presumably). I'd love to go to SF but passport/h1b situation doesn't allow me to (I doubt I'd be able to get a job there yet anyway).

Any suggestions? My current considerations are Amsterdam, Zurich (if I can get in), Berlin & London. I just don't know which one of these would be easiest to get a job in/most money left over to give/most EAs.

I'm fluent in Dutch and English, and learning German

 

Sorry if this is a slightly unconventional question, but this is genuinely a hard question to google. I figured someone here has probably been in my shoes before.

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EffectiveAdvocate🔸

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I agree that Amsterdam is a good option, but if you are interested in AI policy, Brussels now has a very active ecosystem, most of which is quite EA-oriented. Oddly enough, this is completely separate from the Belgian EA ecosystem.

ceselder*1
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I've been informed of this yeah. EA belgium has told me about this and I I will be attending a talk of the brussels AI safety community soon. And indeed this is mostly policy people.

Sadly I am way more interested in pursuing research than policy I think, but thanks for letting me know :)

A funny, very American way, I've heard Brussels described to me is that: "it's like San Fransisco but instead of techbros it's policybros"

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Mjreard

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Amsterdam seems like the best one to look into given your background. EA Netherlands has long seemed strong to me and they regularly hold EAGx's there. Generally Prague and Berlin will be quite strong too. 

ceselder1
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Thank you for your insight. It would make the most sense in a lot of ways. But for some reason I feel more attracted to Berlin and Zurich still (maybe it's because I just don't like amsterdam that much as a city), I have good friends in Zurich already too.

I think I'm looking for a unicorn. 

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James Herbert

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You'd be very welcome in the Netherlands! 

You can get some data on how Amsterdam/NL compares to other places in Europe using the Geography section of the 2024 EA Survey - though obviously survey respondents aren't the full picture of who's actually present and engaged (and we had a big spike in 2024, so maybe something happened with the sampling). Amsterdam has the highest percentage of EA Survey respondents in continental Europe, and the Netherlands is the country with the fourth highest percentage of Survey respondents. 

We've got a community co-working space, EAGxAmsterdam, regular meet-ups, and quite a few organisations that have been heavily influenced by effective altruism: Catalyze, Doneer Effectief, Lafiya Nigeria, NOVAH, the School for Moral Ambition, The Mission Motor, Timaues, and the Tien Procent Club.

And of course, you probably already know this, but UvA has a decent reputation for AI, and Amsterdam has strong finance and tech sectors.

Having said all this, since you said elsewhere that you've already got good friends in Zurich, I'd go there :)

ceselder1
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Oh cool I didn't know theere was data to back this claim up. That's really awesome to hear that amsterdam is so active. I've already applied to go to EAGx Amsterdam and It's definitely higher on my list now.

Thank you for the detailed breakdown :)

I'd assume if you break it down for population, amsterdam is actually really really high here!

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James Herbert
No worries!  Yes, in per capita terms we do pretty well :) But so do Norway, Switzerland, and Estonia.  I'd suggest having a few 1-1s with people who have been in a similar situation to yourself (or people who can provide an overview of different relevant communities). @guneyulasturker 🔸 came to Amsterdam from Turkey to do an exchange here (and eventually interned with us) because he thought it'd be a good place to connect with EAs in Europe. I think he was a little disappointed at first - it's not like there's something happening every night of the week - so he can give you a nuanced view.  Perhaps you could also talk to @mariuswenk? He was interning with EA Switzerland and then chose to spend a few weeks interning with us to see how things vary from place to place.  Good luck making the decision, and we look forward to welcoming you at EAGxAmsterdam!
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guneyulasturker 🔸
I believe Amsterdam has a very active community. I was a bit disappointed at first, but I think that was due to my unrealistic expectations. After returning to Turkey, I’m very glad that I did my exchange in Amsterdam, most of that gratitude comes from the wonderful community there. I'd be happy to give more details on my experience, send me DM if you'd like to!
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ceselder
Thank you for sharing your experience!
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mariuswenk
I am actually currently based in Zurich and work from its EA and AI Safety co-working space PEAKS, which has around 15 desks, and is quite lively. People from the community are always welcome to join! Trying to answer your core question here: I believe all four of those cities are good candidates and have active EA communities. London certainly has the highest absolute number of AI Safety people, and could be safely considered the biggest AI Safety hub in Europe. Berlin currently mainly has an EA co-working space, but as of this Monday, people are also starting to coordinate more on AI Safety co-working. @James Herbert has already shared a lot regarding Amsterdam, and I am happy to share more about Zurich below. With an EU passport, you can definitely get into Zurich as long as you have some sort of financial stability (could be a remote job). Both EA communities in Zurich and Amsterdam are very active. Zurich also has a very active AI Safety community. During university semesters, there are one or two events per week on AI Safety in Zurich (although for various experience levels), and many people in the co-working space are working on AI Safety. I am very happy to share my insights on EA and AI Safety Hubs in Europe. Feel free to DM me if you would like to have a chat!

Benevolent_Rain

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Since you are pursuing E2G, you might actually want to let your job search dictate your choice of city - just an idea. There are several good contenders, and flight between cities in Europe is cheap. Berlin and Stockholm have good tech scenes if you are thinking of joining a start-up early. Otherwise you might just want to look for jobs across the top EA cities, and pick the one where you find the highest wage. Depending on your AI timelines, you might or might not want to consider career progression - something like how many CS jobs are there in total in the city - and HQs/large offices of any large tech companies with high wages.

ceselder4
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Yeah! Those are my thoughts exactly! I will just mass apply all over european hubs and get the highest impact position (within reason, living in a car dependent city for example is a no-no for me).

I wonder if there would be interest in a follow up post breaking down every major EA hub city and comparing general pros/cons (to the extent that is even possible) 

I could break down tax code laws as well

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Sarah Tegeler 🔹

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Great to see you're already considering Berlin: it is a good choice if you're looking for a dense EA community – there are frequent meetups, a long-running coworking space (TEAMWORK), and an annual EAGx conference. EA Berlin spans a range of cause areas and many people work in English-speaking roles. Feel very free to approach me if you have concrete questions or uncertainties about Germany/Berlin or if you would like some connections to people with a similar background!

ceselder1
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Thank you so much!

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Mihkel Viires 🔹

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If you want to find a good country for earning to give, you might want to compare countries' tax systems not just based on their income tax rates, but also look into the tax deductions available for charitable donations. Just like in Belgium, many / most of the wealthier European countries have progressive tax systems with rather high tax rates, but depending on the country, the tax deductions available can give a big boost to how much of your gross income you will be able to donate.

ceselder2
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Great point! I wonder if there's a breakdown of this somewhere already and if not, I wonder if the community wouls value such a thing, since there might be other schengen passport city-agnostic people like me

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Mihkel Viires 🔹
You can start by asking an LLM. If you provide it the level of income you expect to make, it can help with the math. (You will of course need to double check what the AI says.)
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